Q. In the future when I have my own house I will be building a kennel where my border collies, australian shepherds, and papillons will be staying.
1. How much did it cost you to build a kennel?
2. How long did it take?
3. Do you have any pictures?
4. Do you know a site where I can get some ideas or a design?
5. Do you have any suggestions?
Right now I live with my parents and all the dogs live inside. I only breed and show papillons right now, but later i hope to add aussies and BC's. Do you think it would be a good idea to build three different kennels for each breed? What about a training building or something to hold obedience and conformation classes in?
1. How much did it cost you to build a kennel?
2. How long did it take?
3. Do you have any pictures?
4. Do you know a site where I can get some ideas or a design?
5. Do you have any suggestions?
Right now I live with my parents and all the dogs live inside. I only breed and show papillons right now, but later i hope to add aussies and BC's. Do you think it would be a good idea to build three different kennels for each breed? What about a training building or something to hold obedience and conformation classes in?
Answer
the cost between building one now and maybe 10 yr from now would vary greatly. Before you even start to think about a kennel you should study everything you can on the dogs you intend to raise. Most breeders only have one or 2 breeds. it is hard to manage with more. Find a local show breeder that will help answer some of your questions and maybe let you work for them some. See how they are set up. I would start with the paps since you are familiar with them and have some experience in the ring. I wish you the best of luck!
the cost between building one now and maybe 10 yr from now would vary greatly. Before you even start to think about a kennel you should study everything you can on the dogs you intend to raise. Most breeders only have one or 2 breeds. it is hard to manage with more. Find a local show breeder that will help answer some of your questions and maybe let you work for them some. See how they are set up. I would start with the paps since you are familiar with them and have some experience in the ring. I wish you the best of luck!
We are undrgoing an IRS audit on our dog kennel for 2003-2004 and now 2005.?
Bird Dog L
We began the operation in 1998 and have not shown a profit due to unforseen circumstances. They are trying to say we are ahobby and not a for profit. We have made money and have been making changes to the operation a little at a time. We raise and compete for championship titles on the dogs so that when we breed them, people want the pups due to their parents records to either compete with themselves or to add to their breeding program. I have spent quite a while developing the right lines to breed. Just like with show or race horses. Our unforseen problems which slowed us down were #1 Had two mortgages for two years due to our other home not selling during that time. #2 approx 6 months before I went independent as an investment rep, 9-11 hit , no one wanted to invest and my income suffered as well as our perfest credit. #3 during that same time frame my husband owned his business and the company he was invoicing was not paying in full for a year. We are fighting this! any suggestions?
Answer
You are in a difficult fight. Dog breeding cases are tougher than horse breeding because there is not as much financial "upside" in dog breeding. Still, it is possible to win.
The "A" or "F" question is your subjective intent in pursuing the activity. If you convince the auditor that your GOOD FAITH (not "reasonable" -- which means that the standard is subjective, not "objective" -- what matters is what you intend, not what a "reasonable tax auditor" would intend) PRIMARY (meaning of first importance, not necessarily your only motive) MOTIVE is to make a profit, you will win. Still, this is tough. Based on your question, it sounds like years 5, 6 and 7 are being audited. Those are not considered "early start-up years" for dog breeding. You need to show why you have not made a profit yet. This can be done.
Start by giving the IRS evidence about other kennels in your breed that have made a large profit, and show how you have followed their path.
Show your good books and records.
Show the value of your assets used in the business (your dogs, plus whatever other assets you have).
Show the earning potential of the top stud dogs in your breed, and bitches as well, and explain why you believe that you can achieve similar results.
Formulate your responses in terms of the 9 points in Treasury Regulation 1.183-2(b). This is the format that the IRS will understand. You can get a copy of this regulation at a law library, or from a tax attorney or a CPA. It is also available on-line at http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/services/research/guides/grfs/specialized/tax_13.php. This is important.
The set-backs that you cite in your question will not help you. They do not relate to your dog breeding business. How about the market conditions in your breed? If they have been depressed, this could be a factor that would help you.
If you can afford a professional representative, that is helpful too, but not essential.
Only you can know what your state of mind was during those years. If it was primarily to make a profit, then go for it and do not give up. Go to the Appeals Division of the IRS if the Examination Division will not believe the truth. You get a fresh look from an independent person at the Appeals Division.
Put everything in writing. Talk about changes in the dog business that you have made to increase profitability.
Talk about the experts with whom you have consulted, both about breeding and showing dogs, and if possible, about the "business" side of the dog business. Demonstrate your own expertise, either by results in shows, or positions in dog breeding trade organizations, or even testimonial letters from other breeders or judges.
Have you taken any sales training, for the benefit of your dog business? If so, bring this fact to the attention of the IRS.
If you have had success in other businesses, show evidence of your success in other entrepreneurial endeavors.
There is an extensive discussion of the relevant tax law and cases at http://tax.cchgroup.com/FocusOnTax/2005-07/Hobby_Losses_TAXES.pdf. You might want to read it. It is available online without cost. CCH is an excellent publisher of tax information.
You might also look at resources for horse businesses and adapt them to your use. For $69.95 plus shipping and handling, there is a training video tape called: FIGHTING BACK: SUCCESSFULLY REPRESENTING YOUR HORSE BUSINESS TO THE IRS. It is available through an equine tax attorney's website at www.husbandlaw.com. It is set for horses, not dogs, but the applicable parts of the law are the same, and it designed to teach people to represent themselves.
You have a tough fight. The fact that they are adding a third year to the audit probably means that the examiner has already made up his or her mind, and is going to write a report saying that you owe additional taxes. It may be that your only chance will be in the Appeals Division (which usually gives a fair opportunity for a taxpayer to correct an error made by the examination division -- if you are in the right, do not miss your chance to present your case to an Appeals Officer) or in Tax Court. Good luck.
You are in a difficult fight. Dog breeding cases are tougher than horse breeding because there is not as much financial "upside" in dog breeding. Still, it is possible to win.
The "A" or "F" question is your subjective intent in pursuing the activity. If you convince the auditor that your GOOD FAITH (not "reasonable" -- which means that the standard is subjective, not "objective" -- what matters is what you intend, not what a "reasonable tax auditor" would intend) PRIMARY (meaning of first importance, not necessarily your only motive) MOTIVE is to make a profit, you will win. Still, this is tough. Based on your question, it sounds like years 5, 6 and 7 are being audited. Those are not considered "early start-up years" for dog breeding. You need to show why you have not made a profit yet. This can be done.
Start by giving the IRS evidence about other kennels in your breed that have made a large profit, and show how you have followed their path.
Show your good books and records.
Show the value of your assets used in the business (your dogs, plus whatever other assets you have).
Show the earning potential of the top stud dogs in your breed, and bitches as well, and explain why you believe that you can achieve similar results.
Formulate your responses in terms of the 9 points in Treasury Regulation 1.183-2(b). This is the format that the IRS will understand. You can get a copy of this regulation at a law library, or from a tax attorney or a CPA. It is also available on-line at http://www.law.harvard.edu/library/services/research/guides/grfs/specialized/tax_13.php. This is important.
The set-backs that you cite in your question will not help you. They do not relate to your dog breeding business. How about the market conditions in your breed? If they have been depressed, this could be a factor that would help you.
If you can afford a professional representative, that is helpful too, but not essential.
Only you can know what your state of mind was during those years. If it was primarily to make a profit, then go for it and do not give up. Go to the Appeals Division of the IRS if the Examination Division will not believe the truth. You get a fresh look from an independent person at the Appeals Division.
Put everything in writing. Talk about changes in the dog business that you have made to increase profitability.
Talk about the experts with whom you have consulted, both about breeding and showing dogs, and if possible, about the "business" side of the dog business. Demonstrate your own expertise, either by results in shows, or positions in dog breeding trade organizations, or even testimonial letters from other breeders or judges.
Have you taken any sales training, for the benefit of your dog business? If so, bring this fact to the attention of the IRS.
If you have had success in other businesses, show evidence of your success in other entrepreneurial endeavors.
There is an extensive discussion of the relevant tax law and cases at http://tax.cchgroup.com/FocusOnTax/2005-07/Hobby_Losses_TAXES.pdf. You might want to read it. It is available online without cost. CCH is an excellent publisher of tax information.
You might also look at resources for horse businesses and adapt them to your use. For $69.95 plus shipping and handling, there is a training video tape called: FIGHTING BACK: SUCCESSFULLY REPRESENTING YOUR HORSE BUSINESS TO THE IRS. It is available through an equine tax attorney's website at www.husbandlaw.com. It is set for horses, not dogs, but the applicable parts of the law are the same, and it designed to teach people to represent themselves.
You have a tough fight. The fact that they are adding a third year to the audit probably means that the examiner has already made up his or her mind, and is going to write a report saying that you owe additional taxes. It may be that your only chance will be in the Appeals Division (which usually gives a fair opportunity for a taxpayer to correct an error made by the examination division -- if you are in the right, do not miss your chance to present your case to an Appeals Officer) or in Tax Court. Good luck.
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Title Post: Starting a dog kennel.......?
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